Our advice is not to rely on the range estimation in the first place. Once paired, find the Customise menu and select Assist. Otherwise I do not care. Is this a review for ants? There are no reported cases of spindle breakage of DU-EP800 when assembled with Shimanos cranks. Also the bikes will be heavy as f*ck with an 820Wh battery. People know you're not running some old E8000 or E7000 motor. It features the new Shimano EP8 motor and a 630wh battery. It's also a very quiet motor when pedalling. In the lower settings, youll have to pedal really hard to get maximum support the motor. Shimanos answers to our questions are published below verbatim. Recalled but still was delivered with the rattle. Specializeds Mission Control app continues to be the market leader in terms of connectivity, tuning options and user-friendliness. As mentioned earlier, the Bosch motor does feel punchier than Shimano EP8, with noticeably stronger support at lower cadences. As of April 2021, all of Commencals EP8-equipped bikes have been specced with Shimano cranks, but this change has taken some time to filter through to consumers because of the time it takes for fully built bikes to get to the shop floor. These motors have Cadence sensors as well as torque sensors. Were currently testing three bikes with Shimanos EP8 motor and one of those has just over 800km on the odometer. Pros - extremely quiet Cons - annoying rattling noisesums up 2020! Let us know what those are so we can demand them! The downside for Bosch is that its display options leave a lot to be desired. Oh, how the humorous aspect of your comment has been missed. So that would include rocks, hops, trackstands but also sudden boosts from a standstill. Shimano EP8 is smaller and lightweight It's not just the motor housing that is smaller but also the inner workings of the EP8 motor. The fact that the EP8 motor uses the same mounting points as the old E8000 motor means there are a few bikes out there that were anticipating will be updated with the new motor like the Norco Sight VLT and Range VLT. Animals and Pets Anime Art Cars and Motor Vehicles Crafts and DIY Culture, Race, and Ethnicity Ethics and Philosophy Fashion Food and Drink History Hobbies Law Learning and Education Military Movies Music Place Podcasts and Streamers Politics Programming Reading, Writing, and Literature Religion and Spirituality Science Tabletop Games . Its an unfortunate situation that we think could not have been predicted by any of the parties involved. While the EP8s performance on the climbs is generally excellent, we have occasionally wished for a little more overrun for clearing technical features. Maybe it's specific to the commencal frame design transmitting sounds? Thus when I'm carrying a spare battery I can get up to 60 mile rides in, which e-bike or not, is still a hell of a day in the saddle. I also have Commencal 2021 meta power sx. All the grit is gone because it's clearly stuck between your bitter little arse cheeks.. That said, wed prefer if there were more metrics displayed on the main screen to begin with, so you could ditch the GPS altogether. The metallurgic analysis was conducted to discover root cause. Maximum power output sits at 500W, although the. Shimano said August was the best. You also need a special key to release the battery from the frame, which were not fans of, at least for a mountain bike anyway. When youre at those 30-40km/h descending speeds, EP8 doesnt punish you for stamping on the pedals to build some extra speed in the lead-up to a jump or dropoff. I thought ebikes were supposed to enable us to do more fun stuff in less time. What this article says to me is that ebikes are no where never the level of refinement that I would require to give up a normal bike. When they start looking (and weighing closer to regular trail bikes then I'll consider. This BT-8036 battery only needs a 4mm hex key to be released from the frame for charging separately, which is unlike Bosch that requires a special key (potentially something else to lose/forget). 2c - If preload cap has no threadlock patch pre applied: Wait until you see how much work it takes to replace rear derailleur housing! Funny that Shimano now budget e-bike motor builds? Just imagine if i had bought a Shitmano Ebike. Please, It appears you're using an old version of Internet Explorer which is, the 471.5mm rear centre on the Giant Trance X E+, that achieves the most discreet integration, the MasterMind TCU display on the new Specialized Levo. Their heckler had complete battery failure, the ship date for a new one is close to the motor ship date. Maybe in a next generation they can implement an optional solution analog to what we're already seeing f bicycle chains. Make it 100 mile range, and I'm in. Regular motor inspections and general servicing should be carried out on the bike as per the manufacturers recommendations to help spot any potential damage before it leads to failure. On one ride with the Canyon Spectral:ON, the range estimation initially showed 25km. This means that if you ride in the default Trail and Boost settings, youll actually end up with a similar total range as the old E8000 motor, albeit with the benefit of more power and assistance throughout the ride. The cause is due to the difference in design from Shimanos crank, which causes increased stress around the spindle hole.. Hopefully your SC dealer will be the concierge for a warranty issue if it's a broke. So many issues that can be simply solved by not having a motor. Weve checked each of their axle spindles and can confirm none are showing any signs of cracking or damage. Shimano has put its long-running Steps E8000 format to pastor and heralds in its EP8 motor unit for 2021. As mentioned above, the Assistance Character bears the biggest influence on the motors on-trail feel, and dialling this down can make quite a big difference to the amount of range you can get from the battery. Just got my first 29er. This occurs if the cap is not correctly tightened or the factory-fitted threadlock hasnt been adequately applied, and if the crank arms pinch bolts arent tightened to their correct torque. My brain constantly struggles with whether 2 bars remaining means I have 21% or 59%I would prefer a continuous power bar or percent. They could have gone "yeah the rattling sucks but we hope you appreciate the motor nonetheless" but instead they composed this pure poetry. Non-recommended 3rd party cranks can make a crack in the spindle because the difference in design from Shimanos crank causes increased stress around the spindle hole. Maybe 10 days from when I sent them an email and a new motor arrived at my doorstep. The Shimano EP8 RS motor, the key to the experience. The investigation has led e*thirteen to produce technical service bulletin 157 (TSB), published on its website on 14 October 2021. However, where the Bosch Gen 4 feels like a diesel engine at low RPMs, the sporty EP8 drive unit still prefers spinning at a higher cadence. Anyone having problems with the charger? Already have an account with us? Also heard of this happening to another EP8 up in park city, 5 miles on the motor, and did the same thing mine did. Bikes sent in for testing are usually carefully prepared by brands to pick up any assembly issues, and then are checked before testing by in-house mechanics or the testers themselves. Weve ridden the latest Bosch Performance CX Gen 4 motor on a variety of e-MTBs, including the Cube Stereo Hybrid 160 and the Trek Rail. So this one article, about this one e-bike, says to you that ALL e-bikes lack refinement and therefore aren't worthy of you gracing them with your holy ass? We see some comments about how bad the Shimano EP8 motor is. It doesn't feel good. When we make fun of others, its because we are not happy w ourselves. Quick everyone, it's another article about e-bikes grab the pitchforks! IMO Shimano bikes are good,but they are 2 steps down compared to Specialized and Bosch. Quote Start New Topic Post a reply to: SHIMANO EP8 - won't turn on (new bike) In summary, Shimano is aware of EP8 motor spindle failure, and is correlating the issue directly with the installation and use of third-party cranks. I suppose pedal assist allows you to tackle the more fun/steep/tech climbs but to be effective it needs to be subtle too. 1. You are not alone. - Lightweight and small form factor Alex is also a regular on the BikeRadar YouTube channel and BikeRadar podcast. Also did some trail work. Hitting those famous tracks day in, day out for eight years, he broke more bikes than he can remember. Where the EP8 motorisnt quieter than its predecessor however, is when youre not pedalling. Under this condition, with each ride the crack can expand, and this can result in a spindle breakage.. I've never heard the rattling noise that has been posted in the early reviews - the motor is super quiet, so it looks to me like much ado about nothing. TSB 156 addresses a reported issue where the crank preload end cap can loosen and fall off, eventually causing the pedal cranks to become detached from the bottom-bracket spindle. Dont be so lazy, put in the work and suffer a little bit! However, all are fitted with Shimano cranks. e*thirteen cranks are commonly specced on electric mountain bikes fitted with Shimano EP8 motors, by bike brands including Commencal, Marin, Orange and Orbea, among others. What ever happened to grit?!?! At full charge in Trail mode it says range is 90km or so but I haven't put that to the test on more mellow trail days but am sure others have. Plus integration looks like shit on those Nox bikes. What makes me sad is seeing young people hop on the e bike train so that they can go on a longer ride or so that someone who is new to cycling can keep up with their friends who have been riding for years, all to perpetuate needless consumerism and a gross waste of resources. Just remember to manually unpair your phone from the bike before you start riding again, as the motor wont engage while the system is paired to the app. e-bikes remove the only non-financial barrier for entry into a sport that historically required at least some small amount of fitness. We got in touch with several brands to find out if they knew about the issue, whether they were going to continue to spec the e*thirteen cranks with EP8 motors, and what a customer could expect to happen if they encountered this issue. As they say, power is nothing without control. That just isn't real world riding though, you just don't spend all your time in boost mode. That would be awesome to do laps on. Let us know what you find out. A forum community dedicated to Mountain Bike owners and enthusiasts. There are 10 levels of adjustment, from Eco to Powerful. Step 2 - Identify if preload caps have a pre-applied threadlocker patch and apply if necessary. - Numerous battery options, both from Shimano & 3rd parties Shimano EP8 motor bottom bracket spindle failures caused by manufacturing defects, ethirteen claims. I'd do way more on a big day. The maximum rider support was raised to 400%, compared to the E8000's 300%. Rattling noise, you've seen (or heard) any of the Semenuk RAW100 videos? In the end, our test data supports that the root cause is not e*thirteen cranks as Shimano has indicated. Unfortunately frenchies and Germans are not masters of marketing. The issue, we've been told, is that the motor body is subject to cracking when the drive is employed as a stressed part of the bike's frame. More powerful:The new Shimano EP8 puts out 85 Nm of torque, 15 Nm more than its predecessor, the Shimano STEPS E8000. 2b - If threadlock patch is present, move on to step 3. Others will tell us the EP8 is a weaker motor. While weve certainly been impressed by the power, ride feel and tuneability of the Shimano EP8 system, how does it stack up against the likes of Bosch and Brose/Specialized? Can I give 100 upvotes please? We asked Shimano and e*thirteen for comment on the spindle cracking issue. Durability and ease of maintenence is far more important than power in my world. Thanks to lightweight magnesium components, Shimano has shaved off a cool 200g of weight making it one of the lightest electric bike motors on the market today. Of course this means it also clacks when coasting over rough terrain, though again, weve gotten used to it within a couple of rides. If you woild like to commute a long distance to work instead of driving and would like to do so using an e hybrid or similar, I understand. Riding it further could result in a serious accident or injury if one of the systems components fails. The EP8 RS engine is physically the same as the . Overall its a vastly neater execution compared to the likes of Bosch and Yamaha with their Kinder Surprise-style switch units. Absolutely. Shimano doesnt state what those design differences are, however. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Would you like to receive offers, updates and events from BikeRadar and its publisher Our Media Ltd (an Immediate Group Company)? 214 Thanks! With 21% greater torque than E8000, the EP8 motor delivers substantially more punch on the trail, and it feels more usable too. We hope Shimano will join us at that table soon.. Now, we're not going to be working on the actual. Now well point out here that the Bosch Gen 4 motor exhibits a similar metallic clacking noise, since its internal gear system also employs a clutch. Given the detail published in e*thirteens TSB 157, we wanted to give Shimano the opportunity to present its side of the story, and ask some further questions. He started racing downhill at the tender age of 11 before going on to compete across Europe. On top of that, you cant tune the Bosch motor like you can with EP8 theres no fancy app, and the stock assist settings arent adjustable at all. Well, maybe, but he also chucked 20kg dead weight in his bag to try to make things right for you. Don't take things too seriously just get out there and enjoy whatever you own and have FUN! A kilometre later that estimation dropped to 14km, then not long after to 9km, then to 5km, before the motor automatically switched into emergency limp home mode. I don't know anyone that likes a bike that rattles in any way or form. I have this motor. me-bikes: Ibis Exie, Ibis Ripley V4, Ibis Ripmo V2. All you guys "waiting" to get a ebike are blowing it..the bikes are refined trek rail no problems..going around the country slaying every trail I see chugging beer and laughing at all u haters.. believe me I guys will all be on one sooner than later. Basically any minor impact that causes the chain to bounce and tug at the chainring will result in noise. I haven't had the privelage to ride any bosch equiped bikes or other shimano bikes but this thing is so quiet I think it would be hard to find another ebike motor that is more silent. There are a lot of factors that influence range including rider weight, tyre choice, trail conditions, and elevation. Cargo Take the load off and breeze past traffic jams Commuting Upgrade your urban lifestyle Active Get sportier in the city SHIMANO CUES Di2 Our all-new SHIMANO CUES Di2 inspires a more active and sportier lifestyle while making commutes less stressful so you can focus on the road - and the ride. Unfortunately this clutch also produces a metallic clack whenever it rotates back and fourth. This means its impossible to tell whether you have 21% or 49% battery remaining. Anyone knows what's are those white (ish) shoes the reviewer is using on some of the pics? Sometimes that means a DIY fix and other times it can mean a recall, software update or part replacement by a dealer. The STEPS system has a great diagnostic tool, any bike shop that deals with Shimano STEPS should diagnose it quite easily. But on the premise of further, faster, more fun, that range at full noise is not gonna outdo the range & fun I get outta my bowl of cereal and some old fashion pedal power. Yes, we understand how and why spindle breakage may occur when some non-Shimano cranks are used with our DU-EP800 drive unit. Yesterday I drove down south to explore some new trail in Utah. "- Only five power bars for charge level.". If possible, repeat this ride on the Eco and Boost modes too. Now, would we like to see Shimano eliminate the noise altogether? I like to see a dynamo recharging system when the bike starts to coast downhill. Purchased an SC Bullit in march and I now have 520 miles on it. If speed and maximum power output is less of a concern though, switching into the factory Eco mode is a sure-fire way to get more ride time expect range to double from those figures above. dont think people would fancy riding a fixie down a trail. In a closed Facebook group called Shimano EP8 Owners, there are also reports of EP8 spindle failures. The Levo SL? However, when coasting on rough terrain the unloaded system can exhibit a 'NORMAL' clicking sound that may be detectable to the rider. Annoying rattle, did anyone say that to Shimano when they first introduced the freewheel? If you aren't climbing steeps and requiring the torque, you would get way longer distance. 2 full laps on the Shore is a good day and have done 3 of those without charging in between (usually in trail mode with boost for a section or two). I wish real bike reviews were this detailed. Only the Levos belt-driven Brose drive unit beats EP8 in terms of motor noise. Bikers Edge in Kaysville Utah hooked it up and took a motor off their demo heckler mx and put it on mine. Power less, battery smaller, it lighter is.. Would "every time you push the on switch" have been more understandable? Not the first time Shimano has screwed the pooch with recent launches. So then it gets really confusing as it seems like the first bar lasts 30% and the last one 10%. When youre descending down the trail, the volume and resonance are amplified. A downside of the 2.2 motor is that it is noticeably draggy above the 25km/h cutoff though something we experienced during back-to-back between the Levo and Canyon Spectral:ON. 2023 Thok TK01 R Review | A surprising package from an Italian e-MTB specialist, 2022 Canyon Spectral:ON Review | A better e-MTB in almost every way, 2023 Trek Fuel EXe Review | This brand new lightweight e-MTB is the stealthiest weve ever tested, Rocky Mountain Altitude Powerplay Review | Power is nothing without control, This website requires Javascript for optimum viewing purposes. e*thirteen recommends inspecting Shimano EP8 motor spindles to ensure no cracks are present before riding any EP8 equipped bike again and in doing so have provided a step by step process for doing this with images and instructions below. I think Shimano is taking these issues very seriously. 500W, although the to tell whether you have 21 % or 49 battery... 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