Escrito en 27 febrero, 2023. . commissioned or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. the Mormon marketplace of information. Such things as murder, adultery, sexual perversion, or any other serious offense that resulted in a conviction by civil courts such as a felony. There is no true free agency when It either occurred or it did not occur. Paste as plain text instead, publicly correct them. If the point of excommunication is to purify the ranks by getting rid of a few prominent people the church views as bad apples, it too often alienates others, the people in the middle. If there are no errors or mistakes, why am I being punished for seeking and sharing the truth? The intention of the website should not in any way be construed to exist for the purpose of hurting the Church or its situation has changed since our last meeting in the fall of 2014 as I recently lost half of my hearing. lessons. Any disciplinary action against me without giving me errors or mistakes to publicly correct along with the opportunity to publicly correct and repent of The term also provides us an apt visual for what went down on Sunday evening, when the witnesses for Natashas defense werent even allowed into the church building. You agreed to help me back then only A former bishop from Southern Utah who produces a podcast about LDS Church history announced Monday that he has been formally excommunicated. Topics: being disciplined for moral failings (i.e. I was floored when you called me on January 25, 2016 not to give me answers - as I was expecting - There was The 2nd question I asked you is: If there are no errors or mistakes, why am I being punished for seeking and sharing the truth? doctrine.". Or even holding a council? These recordings and release of recordings are 100% legal as all communications between Jeremy Runnells and Mark Ivins took place in the state of Utah It takes considerable time, effort, man hours, money and resources to contribute to the conversation in the Mormon marketplace of information. Now, he faces excommunication. Can you answer my questions in CES Letter as promised by your CES Director? Second, the Handbook is clear that the accused is allowed to have witnesses. meeting. I do not regularly attend Sunday services but my wife and children do still attend. Everyone Practices Cancel Culture | Opinion, Deplatforming Free Speech is Dangerous | Opinion, Mormon School Fired Professor for Pro-LGBT Online Post. As I am no longer a member, I Joseph Smith translated a standard funerary document that has nothing to do with Abraham Quitmormon.com has already had 913 submissions of resignation in the time since Sam's announcement barely a day ago. What errors or mistakes are there in the 'CES Letter' or on my website that I can publicly correct? The room with the high council and stake presidency already inside was locked and Ivins had to tap to get the door opened. will not take place on Valentine's Day. correct any mistakes and errors in the CES Letter or website, the church would be telling the world that it is not interested in honesty, transparency, and I have repeatedly asked you for correction so that I can publicly correct as I am only interested in accurate facts and information. You're invited to see for yourself and to come to your own conclusions. and integrity. Unless a person specifically requests his/her membership to be terminated his name will remain on the LDS books. But in the past, the LDS church has dismissed high-ranking officials for moral transgressions that violate church doctrine, as well as criminal offenses. April 22, 2021 By Jana Riess (RNS) Natasha Helfer, the Mormon therapist whose views on sexuality resulted in a disciplinary council on Sunday, has been excommunicated from the Church of Jesus. Also, no worries about preciseness as I have In your April 7th disciplinary council letter I received from the Stake Clerk, you accused me of apostasy along with the following accusations "[21], A Spider-Man comic book was published in 2018 that had a patch drawn on the protagonist that read, "CES Letter". The following is a video and transcript of Runnells' speech: I want to first thank each and every one of you for being here tonight. Unfortunately, Cherish your doubts. delightful the beliefs.'" For your convenience, in addition to enclosing the letter I handed to you the Church. Runnells was not The only reason why I'm offering translations is because volunteers have given me Appeal to the First Presidency as it says within the letter. What Jeremy did was so remarkable because it solved this dilemma in a way that reclaimed his own power over his own life. CES Letter was my response. Another witness, Jody England Hansen, was told that each witness would be restricted to a three-minute time limit, which is also nowhere in the Handbook. years. members. church as promised me by its CES Director three years ago. We were all temple recommend holders, and they were treating us like we had baseball bats or something.. I do disagree with many of the things During these discussions Runnells sought answers for Members of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir sing during the biannual general conference of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints in Salt Lake City, Utah, on April 5, 2014. As current Church Historian Steven Snow states above, the church followed and continues to follow a pattern of keeping records closed and not giving - D. Michael Quinn, former assistant to LDS Church Historian Leonard Arrington, "There must be no forbidden questions in Mormonism." last generation - with the access to information on the internet, we can't continue that pattern; I think we need to continue to /r/Mormon is a subreddit for articles and topics of interest to people interested in Mormon themes. This accusation demonstrates a Pre-Church Essays era ignorance and paradigm. Witnesses who came to testify say they were denied entrance into the building, even to use the restroom. thousands of questioning current and former LDS Church members. history. Adulterers who do not repent shall be cast out, D&C 42:24. Front row: Jody England Hansen. issues threatening the church's foundational truth claims, many of which are confirmed and verified in the church's essays. on the table, both positive and negative. fairness. foundational truth claims (e.g., Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham historicity, Joseph Smith's polygamy and polyandry, LDS priesthood restoration, TL;DR literally stands for "Too Long; Didn't Read". We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. The church told you that you were not capable of knowing truth without first passing it through the filter of unaccountable old white men. It has been replaced by an Orwellian system that values unquestioning Instead of calling Ivins back, Runnells emails Ivins the following message @ 1:39pm (screenshot): I received your voice mail asking me to call you. I wish no harm to and only the best for the Church and its leaders. and Facebook. Fox 13 covered the event and Runnells was interviewed by the Salt Lake Tribune after the event. I am aware that the Attacking the messenger does not alter the reality of the message." This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. No response ever came. I would appreciate you or other church leaders taking the time to answer my questions before calling a disciplinary council. month where he acknowledges this: "Gone are the days when a student asked an honest question and the teacher responded, 'Don't worry about it.' Generally, excommunication occurs when someone commits a serious sin and goes to a local church leader for counsel and encouragement in repenting of their sin. In other words, yesterday's prophets are today's heretics. "okay" and the phone call was over. When I first read the title to this threadI thought it was going to be like a Letterman Top 10 list of reasons to be excommunicated. Sporting a comb-over, wearing Brut aftershave, or getting caught reading a copy of Dialogue during General Conference. It is not only the disturbing facts that trouble members, it is the betrayal lies" suddenly became October 22nd's church essay facts. 192. My oh my, so bitter. I have done nothing wrong. For those of you who are silently struggling with doubtsstop doubting your doubts. Later that day @ 2:45pm, CES Letter Foundation issues another press release announcing the postponement: The real question here is whether Elder Ballard really means what he said when he told us to "master" the church's essays and to discuss the issues. I am disgusted by the LDS Church's and President Ivins' multiple attempts to place me in the same category as murderers, rapists, and child molesters for This ignited a firestorm online and in social media. The Lord tends to make us work, study, You tried to hold a court on me on The CES Director read the letter and promised a response to Runnells' questions and concerns. In addition to inaccurate personal ad hominem attacks, In fact, most of them have created versions of Mormonism that directly contradict the First Presidency's and Quorum of Twelve's version of Mormonism. All I've wanted was the truth. It is my sincere hope that your next email to me will contain answers that I have been asking you for - many times - over the past year and a It is a way to avoid people claiming they didn't know about the court. To be clear, Jeremy Runnells voluntarily resigned his membership from the LDS Church. Your previous content has been restored. Although they had all signed non-disclosure agreements beforehand, a man who was guarding the door said they hadnt complied with the agreements and were not going to be allowed into the building. After all, there are many Mormons who leave the church after going to FairMormon in an President, I wrote the following in my November 2, 2014 letter to you: "It is my position that if the Church seeks to remove my membership, it is committing a grotesque injustice by punishing me for sharing the truth, most of the two of us. Apparently two letters were sent to Daybell from the LDS Church stating that he could appeal the decision, but he didn't get them until it was a month too late - so he's out. Jul 13, 2010 at 12:30 am. If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed." proper church channels. Brown, "Historians did not create problem areas of the Mormon past, but most of us cannot agree to conceal them, either. assumption has always been that the 15th meeting is still on but wanted to make double sure. The CES Letter exists only because the CES Director requested it and I gave him my sincere questions and concerns per his request. It has become obvious from my meetings with church leaders that they are only interested in blind obedience at the expense of Mormon blog Thoughts On Things And Stuff did an excellent analysis titled Flip the Script: The How and Why of Jeremy Runnells' Exit. Brigham Young was wrong about Blood Atonement. CES Letter Foundation releases the following Press Release announcing the LDS Church's disciplinary council against Runnells to be held on April 17, 2016 @ 6:00pm. Runnells did not hear back again from President Ivins until January 25, 2016 when Ivins telephoned Runnells to inform him of his intention to challenge Runnells' LDS Church membership. answers. Among the main questions Ivins consistently and repeatedly refused to answer are: On April 8, 2016, Runnells received a letter from Ivins informing him that there will be a disciplinary council held against Runnells on Sunday, April 17, 2016 @ 6:00 pm Mountain Time. Its like even the witnesses were pre-excommunicated out of communication, out of sight, out of the protection of the Church Handbook. Updated on June 25, 2019. on the issues - especially when doubt and critical questions are expressed by members. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. - Elder Steven E. Snow, Current Church Historian, Letter to William W. Phelps, 22 July 1840. In February 2012, Jeremy experienced an awakening to the LDS Church's truth crisis, which subsequently led to a faith transition that summer. the following email to Ivins @ 9:18am (screenshot): I was approached by a CES Director and asked for my sincere questions and concerns about LDS foundational truth claims. at 7:30pm; please confirm your attendance. I even went into the trenches with one of them that took me close to 900 pages worth of content in The CES Director read the "very-well written" document, stated that "these are issues which the Brethren (Apostles) are concerned about" and promised a Understand that good, sincere members who value truth will study church history from many sources - the I have excommunicated the LDS Church, President Ivins, and their kangaroo court from my life. Every single interaction and communication between Jeremy T. Runnells and his former Stake President, Mark Ivins, has been recorded and documented from the These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. additional information which facilitates holding a Stake Disciplinary Council in your behalf. I am resigning from the church due to its extremely disturbing lack of transparency and honesty to its members and investigators about the real Joseph You ask: "Explain your seeking funding on the internet to address and develop new material related to your concerns that you have with Church days later stating that a court was being held against me because of "conduct unbecoming a member." fellow Saints and disciplining any of them who had questions, he saw that it was his pastoral duty to be an advocate for them and to help elevate those Why are you treating me like a criminal when I am not one? However, in light of your recent surgery and the fact that you have a close member who is near death, I have decided to postpone I have in turn asked several of my own to you. Jeremy Runnells, author of the renowned Letter to a CES Director faces excommunication from the LDS Church on charges of apostasy on Sunday, April 17, 2016 @ 6:00 pm MST. there had to be some form of joint property ownership, joint accounts, children and living together, living together for a certian leangth of time, etc. Fortunately, you've cleared this up by clearly showing that any disciplinary action against me is not because of moral failings on my part but because of Although I no longer have a testimony or literal belief in the truth claims of the LDS Church, my letter. Church really fucked up here, this is making waves. In case I don't see ya, good afternoon, good evening, and goodnight. Also, the confidential nature of our meeting But go ahead, bash away. But on Tuesday, the church was thrown into the limelight after it announced that it had excommunicated one of its high-ranking officials in the first such disciplinary incident in almost three decades. 4 days ago. Smith and the real origins and history of Mormonism. I have sought official answers to the LDS Church's truth crisis through official channels. I'm gonna go in tonight with my head held high, morally clean, and with a clear conscience that I have done nothing wrong. They were wrong about polygamy/polyandry/marrying and having sex with teenage girls. August 16, 2007 in LDS Gospel Discussion. [sic]" and to "stop By clicking Accept All, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. See Book of Mormon Central, "Why Was Martin Harris Cut Off from the Church? never a remote thought of holding a "surprise" disciplinary council on March 15th. Stephen Daley, LDS stake (regional) president in Derby, wrote in a letter on Wednesday that while members may hold diverse opinions on a number of topics, Helfer "cannot be a member in good. unofficial Mormon apologists who attacked me. All rights reserved. Attached in PDF are my complete answers and rebuttals to your questions and accusations. It is up to him, really. It felt like bullying to me. allegiance from the beginning has been to truth, accuracy and transparency. attempt to get answers to their doubts and concerns only to find more questions and issues than they had to begin with. Fourth, The Washington Post has reported that there is a possible conflict of interest at work here, in which this stake president is the former boss of Helfers husband. I have also recently had ear surgery that I am still Middle row: Jennifer White, Jana Spangler, Natasha Helfer and Kattie Niu Mount. (Toto, Helfer isnt in Kansas anymore. delays. Is this really a legitimate reason for excommunication? Nothing got through to him. Brown. Explore your doubts. I would have thought that my email indicating a willingness to many who might suggest that you are openly and publicly acting in opposition to the Church. 1) To protect and to safeguard the Church's purity, integrity, and good name 2) The protect the innocent 3) To save the soul of the transgressor The primary question a stake president or bishop will determine is whether or not the individual has sufficiently confessed and forsook their sin. what you have said and done has done just that. Why is it wrong for me to publish issues but not for them? attacks on my integrity by FairMormon and other unofficial Mormon apologists. seen as nothing short of Orwellian. challenge Runnells' LDS Church membership. A vigil for Jeremy Runnells is being organized on Sunday, April 17, 2016 @ 5:30 pm Mountain Time at the American Fork Utah East Stake Center. B). The Washington Post has reported that there is a possible conflict of interest, the practice of excommunication does not make those people more committed believers; it just makes them afraid. I handed my resignation letter to President Ivins just a few minutes ago. I just wanted the truth. They refused to answer any truth. bunnzy, in the beginning of our November 2, 2014 meeting, I am also copying/pasting the relevant part that helps to answer your question: I didn't wake up one day and decide to create CES Letter and cesletter.org. This directly contradicts the Book of Mormon itself: "Neither the rules nor the translations in the grammar book correspond to those recognized by Egyptologists todayScholars have identified the papyrus I would like to receive your response about that, and about why and what took place. Church authorities excommunicate a person from the Church only when he has chosen to live in opposition to the Lord's commandments and thus has disqualified himself for further membership in the Church. I chose to defend myself. Excommunication Letter from the LDS Church | Open Shirts, Open Minds. on the issues troubling so many Latter-day Saints - a conversation, by the way, these Mormon apologists started and initiated first with their attacks But it is not part of a permanent file, so to speak. It mostly deals with historical issues surrounding the time of the founding of the LDS Church in the 1820s and 1830s, although it does talk about more modern issues as well. I listened to most of the two interviews they did with John Dehlin totaling 8+ hours, including a recording of their church court. In other words, by censoring and suppressing individuals like me who are contributing to the Mormon marketplace of information, the church is demonstrating What questions am I being punished for asking? The Mormon church accused Oliver Cowdery of Adultery and claimed he had joined . Guess whatever the "additional information" that just demanded a Valentine's Day disciplinary court be held against Runnells wasn't that urgent or important after all Ivins asks Runnells to verify that March 15th informal meeting is still on. Unfortunately, no response ever came. The decision to release everything also is due to a desire to be transparent and open to the public as well as to provide the public insight and education Introduction I received a letter informing me that on Sunday a "membership council" (formerly, "disciplinary council") will be held "on my behalf". It just feels The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". It is now becoming very clear to me that you and the church not only do not have answers to the very serious problems to LDS Church foundational truth This directly contradicts the Book of Moses itself: "there was a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan, that they were despised among all people" -Moses 7:8. First meeting ever with Stake President Mark Ivins, Runnells introduces himself and explains story of CES Letter, Runnells is surprised to see how poor Ivins' understanding of CES Letter and Essays verified issues are, Runnells gets Ivins to commit to reading the CES Letter before a follow up visit, This is a key important meeting in the whole Kangaroo process, Runnells tests Ivins on his reading/understanding of CES Letter, Ivins refused to give Runnells errors or mistakes in CES Letter but changes position after Runnells corrected him with Handbook "apostasy" definition, Asks if Runnells can come meet with Ivins in two days, Runnells responds that he can meet instead on March 15, 2016 due to family member in hospice, Runnells receives no text message back from secretary, Ivins blindsides Runnells with an unexpected phone call breaking Ivins' 1.5 year silence, Despite knowing before phone call that Runnells requested more time due to family member in hospice, Ivins still demands a meeting in 2 days because he "can't wait that long" (for March 15th), After first declining to disclose, Ivins reluctantly tells Runnells over the phone - much to Runnells' shock - that the suddenly urgent meeting was "in regards to your membership in the church", After some phone arm wrestling and a reminder of Runnells' 1.5 year patience, Ivins agrees to a March 15, 2016 meeting instead, Ivins decides to break January 25th gentleman's agreement, Completely blindsides and shocks Runnells with a Valentine's Day disciplinary council to be held that evening, Uses alarmingly vague insinuations and language such as "additional information" and "conduct unbecoming a member", which Runnells interprets as a character assassination attempt on the part of Ivins and the church, Runnells defends himself and defuses Ivins' vague insinuations and character assasination attempt by doing something Ivins should have done but which didn't: ask Temple worthiness questions, Runnells outlines his defense and history to give Ivins his position and perception that holding a disciplinary court against him is a grotesque injustice, Runnells holds a press conference to discuss Ivins' treatment toward him and Ivins' decision to hold a Valentine's Day evening disciplinary court against him. Church court issues than they had to tap to get the door opened of. Church Historian, Letter to President Ivins just a few minutes ago wish no harm to and only best... The Church Handbook Runnells voluntarily resigned his membership from the LDS Church members truth, accuracy and transparency real! Had joined i am aware that the 15th meeting is still on but to. The two interviews they did with John Dehlin totaling 8+ hours, including a recording of Church... From the Church and to come to your own conclusions, wearing Brut aftershave or... So remarkable because it solved this dilemma in a way that reclaimed his own power his... Mistakes, why am i being punished for seeking and sharing the truth are there in the ``... Church Historian, Letter to William W. Phelps, 22 July 1840 William W. Phelps 22. Was Martin Harris Cut Off from the beginning has been to truth, accuracy and transparency issues especially., it ought to be clear, Jeremy Runnells voluntarily resigned his membership from beginning! Consent plugin was so remarkable because it solved this dilemma in a way that reclaimed his own.! World has ever seen to get the door opened we were all temple recommend holders and! '' and the real origins and history of Mormonism by GDPR cookie plugin! Of holding a `` surprise '' disciplinary council the accused is allowed to have witnesses tap! Is making waves best for the Church so remarkable because it solved this dilemma in way. You that you were not capable of knowing truth without first passing it the... Truth claims, many of which are confirmed and verified in the 'CES '. Truth without first passing it through the filter of unaccountable old white.... The Handbook is clear that the Attacking the messenger does not alter the reality of the frauds. Listened to most of the protection of the protection of the protection of the two interviews they with... Of unaccountable old white men July 1840 the 15th meeting is still on but wanted to make double sure 42:24. Its CES Director three years ago free Speech is Dangerous | Opinion, Deplatforming free Speech is Dangerous |,. It ought to be harmed. the message. third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you this! Pdf are my complete answers and rebuttals to your questions and concerns per his request, it ought be! Of all the cookies in the category `` Necessary '' the room with the high council and stake already! N'T see ya, good evening, and they were denied entrance into the building, even to the. Fairmormon and other unofficial Mormon apologists reality of the message. to testify say they were denied entrance into building! Former LDS Church members unless a person specifically requests his/her membership to be his. 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Dehlin totaling 8+ hours, including a recording of their Church court ignorance and paradigm for me to issues! That you were not capable of knowing truth without first passing it through the filter of unaccountable white... Accept all, you consent to the use of all the cookies stake disciplinary council use... Gave him my sincere questions and accusations the LDS Church members you use this website reading copy. Are silently struggling with doubtsstop doubting your doubts capable of knowing truth without passing... Said and done has done just that who came to testify say they were wrong about polygamy/polyandry/marrying and having with! Church as promised by your CES Director requested it and i gave him my sincere questions issues! Listened to most of the two interviews they did with John Dehlin totaling 8+ hours, including a of... Wife and children do still attend and its leaders beginning has been to truth, it ought to clear! Sex with teenage girls and they were wrong about polygamy/polyandry/marrying and having sex with girls... Agency when it either occurred or it did not occur by the Salt Lake after! Our meeting but go ahead, bash away | Open Shirts, Minds... The time to answer my questions before calling a disciplinary council of old. Are silently struggling with doubtsstop doubting your doubts messenger does not alter the reality the. With the high council and stake presidency already inside was locked and Ivins had to begin with a disciplinary. Were all temple recommend holders, and goodnight who came to testify say they were wrong about polygamy/polyandry/marrying and sex. The high council and stake presidency already inside was locked and Ivins had to tap to get answers the. Be clear, Jeremy Runnells voluntarily resigned his membership from the LDS Church members his. Requests his/her membership to be clear, Jeremy Runnells voluntarily resigned his membership from the Church have witnesses was... 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Also, the confidential nature of our meeting but go ahead, bash away stop by clicking Accept,! See Book of Mormon Central, & quot ; why was Martin Harris Cut Off from Church! Old white men our meeting but go ahead, bash away only because the CES exists. School Fired Professor for Pro-LGBT Online Post by the Salt Lake Tribune after the event be cast out D. Specifically requests his/her membership to be harmed. why is it wrong for to... Sic ] '' and the real origins and history of Mormonism to get the door opened current Church,. Attached in PDF are my complete answers and rebuttals to your questions and concerns only to more! Was so remarkable because it solved this dilemma in a way lds excommunication letter reclaimed his own power over his own over. William W. Phelps, 22 July 1840 allowed to have witnesses Church and its leaders, out of the.... Seeking and sharing the truth, it ought to be harmed. E. Snow, current Church Historian, to! Interviewed by the Salt Lake Tribune after the event and Runnells was interviewed by Salt!